On 12th May 2007 I spoke with Morten Øverbye of Dagbladet. This was a conversation that was long overdue.
I called him on his mobile phone, having been given his number by the Dagbladet newspaper office in Oslo.
M.O. Hello.
F. Yes, hi there, is that Morten Øverbye?
M.O. Hello?
F: Yes, hi there, is that Morten Øverbye?
M.O. Yeah.
F. It is. Yes. Hi there. I thought it was about time I gave you a ring. My name's [........ ........]. You're the chap that did a couple of filthy articles on me, er, in December 2005.
M.O. Oh you're the crazy Briton?
F. Well, you're the inbred Norwegian, yeah?
M.O. (laughing derisively).
So I retorted:
F. You're the one whose mother probably put [you] in a mental hospital.
M.O. You're the person who has been, er, following Heidi Schøne for the last 15 years….
F. I haven't been following her at all…
M.O. …..setting up entire websites about her.
F. Well no it's…..
M.O. It looks like you are obsessed with her.
F. You're the one who is sick in the head if anyone…. An inbred Norwegian. But let me ask you this. Are you going to have the courage to talk to me or are you er…
M.O. Yes of course.
F. You are. O.K. So where's this information you got, er, about me being in a mental hospital for two years? It's absolute rubbish. I've never been in a mental hospital for two minutes, but who gave you that information?
M.O. Maybe you are not even aware that you have been in a mental hospital, I'm not sure. It is in the Norwegian court documents.
F. Well, no it isn't because the Norwegian court documents have a letter from my family doctor saying that I have never been in a mental hospital. Now you are a fucking liar. You are a real piece of shit, O.K and you've lied without checking it….You're a journalist with no principles and you don't check your facts.
M.O. Your language in this, er, conversation, sir and your entire website…..
F. Don't give me…….Don't give me….
M.O. ….and your entire website….your entire website dedicated to Heidi Schøne and Norwegians and Norway is enough for me to set a diagnosis of you sir.
F. You've had your fucking chance you arsehole…. You've printed stuff….You didn't write [to me], you didn't ring me, you didn't give me a chance. You're supposed to follow your newspaper rules [self regulatory rules] of phoning up a person you do a story on…
M.O. I tried contacting you. You're not in the phonebook.
F. You're a lying bastard. You could have emailed me [the website had the email address.] You could have emailed me but the thing is….
M.O. You even set up the website so I couldn't even contact you through the website…
F. Yes you can. It's the email address that's been on [the website for seven years]….
M.O. It's not your telephone number that's in the ‘Who is' contact information for the website.
F. No, no but you can email me. Everyone has got my phone number. But the point is this. You write that “a small child” I thought “should die” and that this is “a threat that in any other country - in normal countries” I would be “prosecuted for,” you son of a bitch. You've put that I've threatened to kill that boy in other words [Heidi's first son]. You've put [inferred] in your 21st December article that I've threatened to kill that boy, that's the meaning, that's the inference from you printing that Heidi Schøne….
M.O. Could you repeat the sentence…… I can't remember me writing that you were….
F. You have put in that…. It is quoted in there that I thought a small child should die, O.K. Heidi's…..
M.O. What's the exact wording of my article?
F. Well the exact wording [and I was going on memory as I did not have the article to hand] is that “a small child he thought should die” and that Heidi Schøne has put “in a normal country he would be prosecuted severely”. That's the wording that is in your article. Now you've informed [the Norwegian public] that I'm a fucking potential child killer and for this I'll never forgive you. And you are a sick son of a bitch. And you've lied……
M.O. You started this conversation asking if I wanted to speak to you. I would really, I would love to meet you.
F. You started that bullshit in the newspaper.
M.O. I would love to meet you with a photographer. Is that possible?
F. Well, I've got your….. your photograph [his photograph was on the internet and I had transferred it to my website adding suitable commentary]….
M.O. Yeah please do….. in your context……on your website…..you are welcome to write anything you want about me and put any photograph.
F. Well it's up there [on my website] your photograph.
M.O. Ha, ha, no one takes your website seriously sir.
F. Oh don't they? A lot of people do.
M.O. They are lunatics, O.K.
F. Your two articles….
M.O. I'd really like to meet you with a photographer….
F. Where, in England ?
M.O. In England , Norway , wherever. You could tell your entire story.
F. I'm not coming to Norway , but….
M.O. Why not?
F. You can certainly come to England .
M.O. We could pay your plane tickets.
F. Oh really? Yeah, you know damn well I'm going to be put in prison, O.K. You come to England and it would be good to meet you.
M.O. I won't be put in prison in England so that might be the fairer way around it.
F. I think you might well be [put in prison]….Because you've incited religious hatred. You've put “half -Arab Muslim”, and you don't even know where the European Court of Human Rights is. You put “ The Hague ” [in his 20th December 2005 internet article].
M.O. You're not a Muslim?
F. I am a Muslim, yeah, but you don't….. you associate “half–Arab Muslim” with ‘sexual madman' and ‘potential child killer'.
M.O. I associate them with you sir.
F. ……and “mental hospital,” so you….
M.O. I put them in the context with you sir.
F. No, no, no.
M.O. If you feel that's embarrassing for other Muslims I understand your view. I share your view on that.
F. You're just a sick son of a bitch. I don't know how you got a job….you are inbred. You are a typical Norwegian arsehole who writes things with pure hatred and bigotry. But thanks to you I'd got 30,000 hits in the last year on that website. And a lot of people…...
M.O. If you let me report from this conversation I will give you even more hits.
F. You…….you give as many hits as you want. It's a pleasure to get hits. But the thing is you are a bigot and a cheat and er….
M.O. Coming from you… I take that as a compliment.
F. No journalist in England would ever print the rubbish you've done because you're a second rate nobody, but….
M.O. Coming from you that's a compliment, sir.
F. Oh is it? Yeah. That's because you are so full of shit you can't, you can't speak a proper conversation. You never check your facts. So “two years in a mental hospital.” Who told you that?
M.O. It's in the Norwegian Court documents, I already told you.
F. It's not. You're a liar.
M.O. No, no I already told you that.
F. You say it's definitely in the Norwegian [court documents] that I've been two years in a mental hospital, is it?
M.O. It's in the Norwegian Court documents.
F. It isn't.
M.O. How come you cannot travel to Norway , sir?
F. Huh?
M.O. How come you cannot travel to Norway , sir?
F. Well, because of the website. I think it was eight months prison suspended for two years wasn't it?
M.O. Yeah.
F. That's right, that's why I'm not going back to Norway . But the thing is this, you are a liar. Because nowhere in the newspaper, alright, sorry – in the court documents – does it say “two years in a mental hospital.” They [the courts] know that's not the case and you're a liar.
M.O. How many years was it then?
F. Well, it wasn't two minutes, but the thing is it's Heidi Schøne who's [been in a mental hospital]….
M.O. It wasn't two years and it wasn't two minutes. How long was it?
F. Nothing at all, as you damn well know, so stop fucking around with words, alright. You're inbred. That's right. You're a typical inbred bigot.
M.O. And you accuse me of fucking around with words, Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
F. What I'll do man, is I will ring you again on Monday alright?
M.O. Yes, please do.
F. You get the court document, alright and you can tell me where it says “two years” [in a mental hospital]…… You lot are so upset. You get people back without even telling them you put an article up there.
M.O. I tried contacting you, I already told you.
F. No you didn't ……bullshit.
M.O. There's no contact information on your website.
F. There is, there's an email address. Not only that, Heidi Schøne's got my number. But the thing is you were so upset O.K.... by that stuff on there [my website] - even from the British newspapers alright, that you got me back as a Muslim and all you represent [to the public] is Muslims in general as being….
M.O. I really don't think you represent Muslims, sir. You might think so. I really don't think so. I think you represent yourself. You can't be representing an entire religion. That's er… ludicrous.
F. No, you've represented, you've put it across to the people [his readers] – “half- Arab Muslim”, “madman.”
M.O. I never put that across to anyone….. I wrote you were a Muslim.
F. Yeah, that's right.
M.O. I never wrote that you represented them.
F. No, no you put it across….
M.O. You know the difference? You understand the difference?
F. I'm a Muslim, I don't have to be told about my religion. You represented “the Muslim,” as all your newspaper have done….
M.O. That's what you do, sir. You meet one Norwegian and you say every Norwegian is like that. I have never done that, sir.
F. Your newspapers in 1995 started that off. They [Bergens Tidende] put nineteen times the “Muslim man,” suffering from “erotic paranoia” and you should know that….
M.O. You did that even back then?
F. Well, it's on the website [all the newspaper articles]. You should look at the website.
M.O. I know, I know.
F. All the newspapers are up there. But the thing is, Heidi Schøne is the lunatic. She's the one….. that's been in a mental hospital.
M.O. Everybody else, everybody else but you.
F. She's been in a mental hospital.
M.O. You're the normal one, everybody else is lunatic.
F. No, not everybody else…. There's some good….
M.O. O.K, just most, most….
F. There's some good Norwegians that have sent me emails and those emails are up there [on the website] but the point is this O.K. You have put total lies….inferring that I am a potential child killer and for that I will pursue you for the rest of your life, and I hope you get arrested.
M.O. You will?
F. Oh yes. I hope you get arrested when you come here because you have committed a hate crime [“incited” one I should've said]. I'm surprised the police – Interpol – haven't….
M.O. It's a ‘hate crime' to put the word ‘Muslim' in a newspaper article? Well, well, well.
F. Have you seen the emails I got after your articles?
M.O. Well, I didn't write those emails.
F. No, no, no, no. You've seen them and they are the sickest emails imaginable and they're up there [on my website]. But you know, you are a real son of a bitch. I don't care [about] any more bullshit you give, your words. You're trying to play smart and cocky and laughing. You are the meanest son of a bitch going. Yes that's right – you're laughing….
M.O. You're just a completely normal person without any obsessions, er, dedicating your life to writing about Heidi Schøne on the internet.
F. No, your newspapers have dedicated all [their] time to writing total rubbish – “erotic paranoia” - and the fact that Heidi Schøne's a lovely girl, normal girl. Of course you don't tell them [your readers] she's been in a mental hospital. You don't tell them about that son of a bitch Gudmund Johannessen. You don't tell [them] she's accused different men of raping her..... You don't mention any of that. She's a sick mental case and you've listened to her because she's Norwegian. It's her…..
M.O. How many internet providers have kicked your site out of their service?
F. Well, it's been up there for four years with the same one.
M.O. Yeah and before that? How many?
F Well, I think, one.
M.O. One?
F. Yeah, that's right yeah. But the thing is we've got freedom of speech here. We're allowed to do it.
M.O. You got kicked out the server? Why?
F. Well, I think because of the images of abortion [aborted foetuses] but that's nothing to do with Norway . It was the aborted foetuses, O.K [that offended the server] because as you well know I'm against abortion.
M.O. So am I.
F. Yeah, O.K, so that was the reason. But the thing is you know… you're not a professional journalist because you've lied. I've never been in a mental hospital for two years.
M.O. You have been writing about me on the internet but you obviously haven't been researching me on the internet. Just look it up.
F. Well, I know from what you've written in your articles that it's total bullshit that you've written. O.K.
M.O. If you had looked it up on the internet you would know that CNN President Chris Kramer has, er, written highly of me.
F. Well, I don't care what he has written about you.
M.O. Well you are claiming that I am not a professional journalist, ha, ha, ha.
F. Anyone who writes lies about “two years in a mental hospital,” that my mother ‘arranged' for me to be put in a mental hospital….
M.O. She didn't?
F. Well, I've never been in one so the question doesn't arise.
M.O. You've never been in a mental hospital?
F. No.
M.O. Never?
F. Never.
M.O. Never.
F. Never. I can swear on my mother's life. Never been in one ever, O.K. And you know that. I think that you know that O.K. That is such a terrible thing [to write]. And to infer that I am a potential child killer… your separate newspapers – you're all the same. You all share the information. Because it's on there, that I've threatened to kill her child O.K. And you've just adopted it, put it in different language but the inference is there…. My lawyer Stig Lunde has got my number. You could easily have done it [phoned me]. You're just giving the usual bullshit, but I…
M.O. He's still your lawyer?
F. Stig Lunde is still my lawyer, yeah.
M.O. O.K. I would like to follow up on this story about Heidi Schøne, er, so…
F. The more the better… I hope you are arrested eventually because I'm trying very hard for that.
M.O. Are you?
F. The British police, O.K, I've informed them. Those emails are the filthiest fucking shit words you can imagine….. Do I “lick a pig's arsehole”…..
M.O. Yeah.
F. You've seen them?..... “before” I “dig in”…. and that's all coming directly as a result [of your articles]. So I'm going to pursue you for as long as it takes because……
M.O. You're going to pursue me because someone else writes [hateful emails] because of my article. That's a long shot, a very long shot.
F. No, no, no. You've incited religious hatred.
M.O. No, no, no.
F. You have, you have.
M.O. No, no, no.
F. Listen, lets put it this way, it's a crime here. It may not be in your country O.K. Because you haven't got many Muslims….
M.O. Of course, of course to incite religious hatred is a crime in most countries. You should know that as a solicitor. You say that a newspaper article….. just because they are mentioning somebody is er… that somebody is a Muslim is inciting religious hatred. That's a long shot, a very, very, very long shot.
F. It's not a long shot because the British police have accepted it.
M.O. No they haven't.
F. Well, why don't you ring up Interpol……I'll call you during the week.
M.O. And you are calling me a liar!
F. You are a dreadful liar.
M.O. You are calling me a liar. You are telling me that Interpol has documents about me. That's stupid, that's just stupid.
F. You probably haven't been informed. I'm not lying. Why don't you ring up – who is it? – Anne Grøstad, the Director of Public Prosecutions. Why don't you ring up Anne Grøstad?
M.O. Why should I ring her up?
F. Well, because she's the one that's looking into it.
M.O. If I believed you in the slightest I might be interested in calling anybody but I really don't believe you … I believe you are full of nonsense.
F. No ‘cos you're a coward.
M.O. No.
F. If you ring her up…
M.O. I really don't…..
F. I don't have to keep pleading with you.
M.O. I called your bluff. I called your bluff.
F. Well call her then. Go on call Anne Grøstad, O.K on Monday morning or Tor-Aksel Busch [the Attorney-General]. Tor-Aksel Busch's office.
M.O. [laughing] ……Sure, ha, ha, ha like Tor-Aksel Busch would really be interested in me. You must be crazy.
F. You ring her [Anne Grøstad] up. What I'll do…. I call you up during the week, either at your office or on your mobile and then you can establish [my proclamations] with Anne Grøstad and you can take your words back alright? No look, incitement to religious hatred….
M.O. The funny thing is that I've got this entire conversation on tape. You wouldn't mind me publishing it would you?
F. I wouldn't mind you publishing it at all. You're welcome to publish it. But the point is….
M.O. Thank you, I will.
F. ……The point is you are a liar and a cheat. Putting, as I said, O.K, ‘maybe' that I'm a potential child killer and that my mother's put me in a mental hospital…. I mean….. has your mother put you in a …..
M.O. Do you have any other comments to what I wrote about you and Heidi Schøne?
F. I think they are on the website. But the point is has your mother put you in a mental hospital?
M.O. The problem is I can't link to your website.
F. Has your mother put you in a mental hospital?
M.O. If my mother? No, I'm not crazy.
F. Well, I think you are.
M.O. You think I am. Well thank you.
F. Well, that's right …… when you can't research facts and say “his mother put him in a mental hospital for two years” and it's entirely rubbish O.K. And there's no court documents [to prove this]. You're a liar O.K. There's no court documents saying I've been in a mental hospital for two years. You ring up Anne Grøstad if you're the great journalist…. You wouldn't get a job on a comic here, because you're second rate and a bigot.
M.O. I have worked…. I have worked for CNN in Europe …. They have their main headquarters in London .
F. I know that, because I've seen that on the internet…
M.O. (laughing) …. You're funny.
F. You've got a portion of you that's a real bigot.
M.O. You're funny, you're very funny.
F. Well, I'll tell you what. I'll give you a ring during the week. Are we settled on that, yeah?
M.O. Yeah.
F. I'll give you a ring during the week.
M.O. And we'll try and meet. We'll try to meet in London if you're not being able to come to Norway …. And I will bring a photographer and you will tell your story.
F. Well, I'm not having any photographs taken of me. You can bet your life on that…. You come on your own like a real man…. You are going to have to retract and do something to apologise as I've not been in a mental hospital for two years. I'm not a potential child killer O.K.
M.O. I have never wrote that you were a potential child killer.
F. ….You fucking well inferred it….. I'm going to ring you in the week and you find that court document that says, as you've quoted, that I've been in a mental hospital for two years. O.K….You've got the bigot about you, right, like the Serbs. You're just like those Serbs and Croat killers.
M.O. Oh… I was in Bosnia during the war. Where were you?
F. Well… I wasn't in Bosnia .
M.O. Yeah, of course, so you shouldn't be talking about things you don't know anything about. You should have respect for the people in Bosnia .
F. I know enough about Bosnia , but I certainly don't….
M.O. You should have some respect for the people down there.
F. What do you mean “respect”? I'm Muslim, I have written about Bosnia .
M.O. I was in Sarajevo during the war.
F. …..I don't need you to tell me about Bosnia .
M.O. It was you that brought it up…..You were the one who brought up Serbs and Croats without mentioning Bosnia , you know that.
F. Look at my website. There's enough about Bosnia on there. There's pages of the stuff on Bosnia , so you don't have to talk to me about Bosnia . But all I'm emphasising is you are a liar. You are the one who put “half-Arab Muslim” associating those people with that filth about sex…..
M.O. That person is you.
F. ….You are going to have your work cut out because you have lied on a massive scale. You've even said that I've lied about Heidi Schøne – “gross lies” in the newspaper. There's nothing I've lied about. Not one. Even the court said everything I said about her was “more or less correct.” Those were the words.
M.O. Were they the same courts that you were running from? The same courts that you say you can't fly back to Norway because you are… you say they will put you in jail? Is it those courts you are referring to?
F. It was the first court, the lower court [Drammen Byrett who said "more or less correct"].
M.O. O.K, so it's not that court you are referring to [i.e. the Magistrates Court who gave me an 8 month suspended prison sentence]. O.K.
F. It's all on the website. You don't have to talk double-dutch with me, O.K. You have been caught out because you have put one of the biggest fabrications going – “two years in a mental hospital.” So you double check your facts.
M.O. I'll put this conversation on the web and let my readers decide.
F. You let your readers….? No you find out the facts…. You have said, “it's in the court documents” – “two years in a mental hospital.” So you get those court documents and you come back to me…. You've done something so, so bad that you are going to have to apologise for it in a proper way O.K. You find the court documents – “two years in a mental hospital.” Ask Heidi Schøne about lies made up [by me], threats to kill her son and all the rest of it and look at the website properly and we'll have another chat. Yeah?
M.O. And you'll call me next week?
F. Yeah I will.
M.O. Yeah great.
F. Are you gonna take the call?
M.O. Huh?
F. You're gonna take the call are you?
M.O. Of course I'm going to take the call.
F. So, as I said, you ring up Anne Grøstad and you get those facts and then we'll have another chat, yeah?
M.O. (chuckling) Have a nice weekend sir.
F. Bye.
M.O. Goodbye.
Fifteen minutes later the phone rang.
F. Hello.
M.O. Hello sir, this is, er, Morten Øverbye calling from Dagbladet in Oslo .
F. So, you got my number on your mobile?
M.O. Yeah, I got it.
F. Yeah, so what do you want?
M.O. But now there can't be any problem to reach you anymore.
F. No, that's right.
M.O. That's fortunate. Um, I just, er, read the article I wrote. And it says, “A Norwegian police serviceman who investigated the case later explained that it was his mother who got him,” er, “committed.”
F. Yeah, well, that's a lie because I've never been in a hospital.
M.O. Well, but that's my sentence.
F. Your sentence is that he's been…. “his mother put him in a hospital for two years.”
M.O. No, er, my sentence is “The harassment,” er, “sustained all the way until 1992.”
F. Look, in the article you did on the 21st December [2005] on the front page it's got that…. “When he came out two years later….”
M.O. “Then the man was committed to a psychiatric hospital in Britain . A Norwegian police serviceman who investigated the case said that it was his mother who got him committed.”
F. Well that's obviously a lie because I've never been in one and the court…. There are court documents to say exactly that. But the sentence you put in the Dagbladet newspaper itself [of 21st December 2005 ], not the internet article [of 20th December 2005 ]. You've put……
M.O. O.K, just let me look at the internet article now. I'll just check the….
F. It's all on my website O.K and every single newspaper article is up there. On the 21st December [2005] the front page with Heidi Schøne's photograph O.K. And, er, in there, you've put, “When he came out two years later”!
M.O. O.K…..Yeah. I'm not on the internet now. I'm outdoors – outdoors.
F. Well it's all up there anyway. I had [all the newspapers articles] translated by a….. top company into English.
M.O. Yeah. But what I wrote in the internet edition was that there was a Norwegian policeman who, who [has] checked it.
F. That's right. That's why I, um, she was, er, I put in a complaint and a judge, er, I think it was John Morten Svendgård phoned my mother and my mother told him it's absolute rubbish. Because I got my mother to, er, I involved my mother in this to try and get Sorte, er, sacked. But the thing is there's a letter from my family doctor which I got purposely from my own doctor to give the facts and it's with the courts, that I've never had any psychiatric treatment anywhere.
M.O. You have no psychiatric history?
F. None whatsoever, no…..As much as you want me to have [a psychiatric history].
M.O. Except for…. No, I was about to say, except for your website.
F. Well that's another bullshit opinion. I'm not going to…..I'm not going to lower myself to answering that rubbish. The fact is you've put, “Two years in a mental hospital” and I want to know where that information came from.
M.O. It says so in the article “a policeman said so.”
F. Are you looking at the 21st December article?
M.O. I just searched, er, Torill, for Heidi's name on our website.
F. It was only thanks to a Norwegian chap that I got your article of the 21st [December]. You've put “two years” on the 21 st .
M.O. Yeah, I just told you I said that I wrote that.
F. Yeah, “two years”…..
M.O. “Said a police officer.”
F. No. You haven't put that Torill Sorte said that. You have put separately, “When he came out two years later,” O.K, “he continued.” “His mother had him committed” and “When he came out two years later” - that is in the 21st December 2005 newspaper article.
M.O. Which article is published the 20 th ….
F. No, the 21 st. You did two articles….dagbladet.no on the 20 th and that was when we had about 1500 hits on the website….. because you made it quite easy for people to find the website. So, you did a repeat article because on that one of the 20 th you put, “Going to the European Court of Human Rights in The Hague .” O.K.
M.O. “Chased by sex-crazy man for 23 years.”
F. Well I know what's on there.
M.O. “Sexually harassed for 23 years.”
F. Yeah that's right. That's what you put on there. Yeah? O.K.
M.O. “23 years since you met Heidi Schøne.”
F. Well I met her here in 1981. [1982 in fact].
M.O. And you are still writing about her on your internet.
F. Well you are. You're writing in your newspapers…. Let's just go back to why you're ringing…..You've got on the web – you're trying to establish whether or not you have put on your article, “two years in a mental hospital”. Now can you just find that….are you looking at my website? You're not are you? What you want to do is, you want to look at my website properly then you…..
M.O. “The harassment lasted until 1992 when his mother had him committed to a psychiatric hospital in Britain . When he came out two years later …”
F. That's right.
M.O. “… he continued worse than ever.”
F. That's right. That's what you put, yeah.
M.O.. Yeah. What's happened for those two years? Why didn't you write anything about her or do anything about her in those two years? Why did you continue two years later then? [He was in fact referring to a two year period before my first court case in 2001 when I did not campaign against Heidi Schøne as my lawyers at the time told me to stop my “information campaign” against her as it would prejudice my case. So reluctantly I stopped].
F. I don't know why you put that because, er…. First of all …First of all… Do you admit you have lied about “two years” in a mental hospital?
M.O. No, I wrote up the website on the 20th December that a police officer said so and in the wording …
F. And you believe her do you?
M.O. It came from a police officer explaining, er, it went, I think, but it's er….
F. No, did you speak to Torill Sorte to ascertain your facts?
M.O. But I spoke to her, yeah of course. You have been harassing her as well haven't you?
F. No. I've not been harassing her. I've just been questioning her. O.K. She's been harassing me, by saying that I've been in a mental hospital. Or my mother wanted to put me [in one], or I have been [in one]. Now where do you get the two years from?
M.O. I just told you that the sourcing on the website is, er, a Norwegian police officer.
F. So Torill Sorte is the source for the two years, yeah?
M.O. Yes and um, on the bottom of my first story it says, “P.S.!! Also a police woman who led the investigation of the Brit is now being harassed by name on his website.”
F. Well it's not “harassing” - it's a right to reply. Do you not understand? I mean, you're a journalist. Obviously my point is that you are a second-rate nothing. You wouldn't get a job in a British newspaper in a million years. Because….
M.O. CNN in London and you know that.
F. It doesn't matter man. Your “two years” [in a mental hospital]…. That's not [CNN] a British newspaper is it? “Two years”…..
M.O. No, I think it…. The Sun is not usually looked about as CNN. It's usually not as highly regarded as CNN.
F. There are lots of newspapers in Britain [for example]…The Times….any serious newspaper journalist would check with me and with the court documents if that's what you've done. You know perfectly well I've never been in a mental hospital, O.K. So for you to print “two years” is a falsehood. O.K?
M.O. According to the police.
F. According to Torill Sorte yeah?
M.O. Who worked for the police and led the investigation.
F. Well…. It is good that you can confirm that because er…er…that she's the source for that. And you believe her do you?
M.O. …..(just silence)
F. No, you're not sure now are you ?
M.O. When we put it in the newspaper we obviously believe it. You complained about some articles to the PFU [the Norwegian Press Complaints Commission] didn't you?
F. They're not worth shit. They're nothing. What's his name – Per Edgar Kokkvold, the Anglophile. The one who loves Britain and all the rest of it. He's pathetic. And their getting out of it and their time limits!
M.O. ….How come you are so angry at me now. It been more than a year since I wrote this article.
F. Well, because, as I said, I was trying hard as hell to get the Norwegian police to, um, to do something about you, but because obviously they regard me as an enemy, then they're protecting you ‘cos you are a Norwegian, O.K. But at last, as I said…. I hope that…. Interpol can do something about you and your editors.
M.O. When you called me just prior to this conversation, you said that they were already doing something.
F. Well that's right, they've [the Norwegian Bureau for the Investigation of Police Affairs] written to me to say that they are looking into it but whether they've made a decision to do anything yet…because they're under a little bit of pressure from Interpol in Britain O.K, who regard it as a hate crime.
M.O. And what's the hate crime?
F. Well, incitement to religious hatred by printing falsehoods and connecting my religion with, er….
M.O. With you….. with you….
F. Well, obviously I am Muslim but you see those emails are the result of what you've written, O.K.
M.O. What emails?
F. Well, if you look on my website. Have you not seen my website? Do you not look at it? If you look at the, er, are you on it now?
M.O. I am on it, er, in just a few seconds.
F. O.K.
M.O. It's norwayuncovered.com
He saw the email address and added:
M.O. You ask people to contact you, don't you?
F. Well I don't ask for those kind of comments, obviously, do I?
M.O. No, but if you ask people to contact you, you really don't know what kind of words….you only want nice comments.
F. Well, no. I don't want the filth, er, that those…..
M.O. You didn't want people to say their opinions about you.
F. Before you, um, you know, jump in without knowing what you're talking about, look on these ‘sickest emails' as you want to know what the investigation about the hate crime is.
And I guided him to the link the ‘sickest emails imaginable' on my website.
He found them and said:-
M.O. Yeah, I really understand that's not nice emails.
F. That right, and there's so many of them that I've gotta say that there is a general hatred of Muslims among a significant sector of your population. Particularly every time your newspapers write about me it's “Muslim man,” “sick,” “erotic paranoia,” “mental hospital,” “potential child killer”….. that I've “raped” her…..
M.O. My question is… you met her 23 years ago, 24 year ago. How come… and you tell me that you are very upset and I understand you, very much… and you tell me that you are upset about these emails that come to you. But the link between Heidi and you now is your website. There is no other link. If you didn't have this website people wouldn't be sending you emails.
F. And if Bergens Tidende hadn't [done] their article in 1995 none of this would have happened and if Heidi's Schøne doesn't go to the police saying I've threatened to kill her son and raped her… I sent all my side of the story to Verdens Gang and Bergens Tidende 1995 – very quickly – they printed nothing and it went on. They were printing articles without me knowing.
M.O. But if ….if your problem now is that Norwegian newspapers are writing about you and that people are sending you emails all this happens because of the website. Why don't you just take down the website?
F. Well, because I think the world ought to know what sort of things go on in Norway …..
M.O. But as long as you keep that website up you can't stop people from emailing you.
F. Only after your article - your two articles - then the bulk of those emails came as a direct result . Because they came on the day and the next day. But I haven't had anything [since]. I've had one or two bad ones, you know, but most of them, well almost all of them, were as a result of your articles. That is completely unforgivable because you've told people that I, in my capacity as a Muslim, am filth.
M.O. No, no, no.
F. That's the information…
M.O. I never told anybody you have done this in your capacity as a Muslim. I have many Muslim friends. None of my friends would ever dedicate their lives to a website regarding one person, one woman.
F. It's not dedicated to one female. It is dedicated to all the other….
M.O. Oh there is lots about Heidi in it.
F. Yeah, because she's the catalyst. She's the one that started it all.
M.O. Now there's Heidi, it's er, policewoman Torill Sorte, it's Karsten Gjone, it's Per Danielsen, Elden, Helge Wesenberg, Vegard Aaløkken, Tony Samstag, the Norwegian police, Agnar Nilsen.
F. Yeah, that's right, so not just Heidi Schøne. Not just Heidi Schøne.
M.O. She's the catalyst?
F. Yeah, it's an exposé of Norwegian life in general. And I do have people in Norway – as you will see from those emails – who agree with me, O.K?
M.O. So while I state very clearly that you are not a representative for Muslims….you feel that Heidi's representative of Norwegians, don't you?
F. You didn't say that in your newspaper article. You gave the inference…..
M.O. No because….that's obvious, that everybody…. every normal person knows that one people, one person does not represent an entire religion. Everybody knows that.
F. Yeah, but you make out as if it does. No one knows that kind of inference better then me because all your newspapers - you look at the first newspaper article from, um, Bergens Tidende, O.K. They put “Muslim Man” nineteen times, O.K. And associated me with “erotic paranoia”…… But you see the link: every time a newspaper [does a story it's] “Muslim man,” “sick,” “mentally ill” and you've perpetuated it by giving it some kind of form and cast-iron certainty in the mind of Norwegian readers. Because you've seen on these emails, those ‘sickest of emails' that they said, “Oh you haven't told people on your website that your own mother put you in a mental hospital. Why don't you mention that? You are the sick one.” That's what they tell me because they believe you.
M.O. So my newspaper article is worse than the others you think?
F. Well, I think after all that's been on there, the amateur way and vindictive spite and the lack of research that you [put into it] on there is so so bad. It's a terrible thing you've done. Because it's not true.
M.O. You are convicted in Norwegian court for harassment aren't you?
F. No, well yes, but the thing is they said to me either you plead guilty or we will put you in prison straight away.
M.O. And you as a solicitor believe that?
F. Oh I very much did. Your police wanted me bad. Because I'd put stuff up [on my website] from British newspapers long ago from The Times in 1990 and other stuff. Even the judge [Agnar A. Nilsen Jnr] before the court [of Appeal] case, he said to me, “I've seen your website. Not very good stuff in there.” And he knew I was going to be arrested the minute that [civil libel] case finished…….. He knew and he never told me that the minute that case is finished I was going to be arrested, because the police were waiting at the door of the court. It was a trap and no one was interested in [a fair trail at] the Court of Appeal. And in fact when I was cross-examining Torill Sorte about this, er, mental hospital thing, the judge stopped me because I was getting very close. Sorte was floundering. She didn't know what to say. She was stumped, O.K. She is a wretched liar. No one has the right to be a policewoman…. to lie like that.
M.O. So you believe most, most Norwegians are liars?
F. No I don't. I've said to you … I mean how can I? You've got four and a half million people. I've put some decent emails up there from people O.K. And I had many friends from Norway . I visited as lot of people in Norway not just Heidi Schøne.
M.O. So it's just the media, the police and the lawyers, the courts and the people you met?
F. You've lied to me, talking like a Serb. As if oh, everyone's against the Serbs…you know….why does everyone hate us? The Serb police, the Serb media. You are all one and the same. You're a small country. You feel isolated, O.K. And when someone attacks then everyone clubs together. Everyone joins up. That's why all your newspapers do the same story without bothering to research their facts.
M.O. So you think, er, all Norwegians and all … are like Serbs?
F. Well, I think your press have a lot in common with the Serbs. In your morbid hatred of, er, “the Muslims”…. I've said that [before] explicitly and I think that the proof is there because every time you write about me - your press – it's “Muslim man,” “sick.” The association.
M.O. What we write is that you are sick, that you are very obsessed with Heidi Schøne.
F. That's right.
M.O. And the proof we are providing for this obsession is your website. [The Norwegian newspapers wrote that I was “sick” in 1995 and onwards, long before my website went online in 2000].
F. Well, no, I think it's just a right to reply and you're upset because of it. It's a big one [i.e. big website] and successful, upsetting a lot of people in Norway from top to bottom and I think there are many grievance websites in the world, especially in England, on many things, on lawyers, on everything and you are just picking on me, er, because the object of the website is Norway.
M.O. All because it's a good story. And poor Heidi Schøne being harassed by this crazy Briton for 23 years now.
F. Well it isn't 23 years is it, because, er, that's just made up. What, every month [for] 23 years? I've replied on a website to her bullshit. And your bullshit. That's not harassment. That's a right to reply and putting my opinion forthrightly.
M.O. You've put up this website in 1995?
F. No, in 2000.
M.O. In 2000, five years after 1995.
F That's on the website. You've got to have a good read of that. Because all the questions you are asking me, the answers are already on there…..
M.O. If I flew to England and knocked on the door of the Interpol there, they wouldn't, er, they wouldn't sacrifice one minute of their work for your case.
F. Well they have because we have got a hate crimes unit here. And it's the hate crimes unit who are dealing with it and they have sent it to Interpol in Norway ….
[and later]
M.O. We could go to the Interpol together and if Interpol arrested me it would be a good story for my newspaper, you know.
F. You want to be a martyr?
M.O. No, I don't think there is any chance of that.
F. But you want to be? You want the publicity.
M.O. I don't think there is any chance of Interpol, ever, ever stopping two seconds talking to me if I knock on their door.
F. But why don't you try? Give it a go.
M.O. Could we go there together with a photographer? It should be a nice story.
F. What? What, to Interpol in Norway ? You must be kidding…..
M.O. Or England .
F. I told you I am not going to Interpol in Norway .
M.O. No, because there you would be arrested you said.
F. Well, that's right, yeah.
M.O. Because you flew away from a sentence in Norway .
F. Well, no other country on earth would be so perverse and bigoted as to get their own back….Isn't it some kind of criminal offence to insult Norway by printing the truth about their … certain institutions? That's what it's all about.
M.O. I don't think so.
F. Oh, just because the “Muslim man” hit back and put something up [on a website].
M.O. I don't think this is about you being a Muslim, sir.
F. Well to me the association…..so why every time print [the word] “Muslim”? Why every time print that? And also there's one article that says I'm….Torill Sorte printing in Eiker Bladet that I am “clearly mentally unstable.”
M.O. Torill Sorte the policewomen says that you are mentally unstable?
F. Yeah… “clearly mentally unstable” is the quote.
M.O. She was the person who investigated the case against you. She was the lead investigator.
F. Oh yeah, top woman! Yeah, fantastic investigative policewoman!
M.O. Where did she have that thought from [that I was “clearly mentally unstable”]?
F. ‘Cos she's nuts. Anyone who say's that I've been two years in a mental hospital when I haven't is clearly a spiteful vindictive bitch and I've told her [as much]. In fact I phoned her up a few weeks ago. She didn't have the guts to speak to me. If it's not true that I've been in a mental hospital, then clearly she's a wicked liar. Agreed?
M.O. (Silence).
F. You can't even agree on that?
M.O. Of course I can. If she says you have been in a mental hospital and you have not been in a mental hospital, then she's lying…..
F. Yeah, exactly.
M.O. …..That's a no brainer.
F. Exactly, but there's no way you're going to print that on the front page…. that clearly Torill Sorte has…. lied. No way you're going to put that, but I can tell you, that my family doctor's letter is in those court documents.
M.O. You have papers saying you are not crazy? That's what you are saying.
F. My family doctor's letter states categorically that I have had never had any psychiatric treatment and that letter is with the court, O.K.
M.O. So you have papers stating you are not crazy?
F. Well, yeah, exactly. I mean “crazy” that's er… and there are plenty of papers saying Heidi Schøne's crazy, but you don't print that ‘cos you protect her. Poor Heidi.
M.O. Most people don't have papers saying they are not crazy.
F. Well, the exact allegation was that my mother put me in a mental hospital so the doctor's letter says that I've never been in a mental hospital. O.K. So for you to print that I've been in one for two years is clearly an outrageous lie …..
[and later]
F. You don't care to establish what's right or what's wrong. O.K? Correct?
M.O. I'm trying to.
F. Oh you're trying to now yeah. Just because [my website] is against Norway you mustn't be so bigoted to call it an obsession, yeah.
M.O. You are making an entire website to a lady you met, er, 23 years ago.
F. No, you just said there's a lot more people on it – there's lawyers, there's police.
M.O. But you said Heidi was catalyst for all the other people.
F. Something's got to be the catalyst but it's the whole cross–section of [Norwegian society such as] your psychiatrists writing in the newspaper that I am “definitely” or “maybe” suffering from erotic paranoia …. There's nothing more provocative than writing one article after the other, especially behind my back. I think there were one or two, well, maybe four or five [articles] I didn't know had been printed for two or three years. Very luckily I found them by a search by typing in “Muslim man” [on a search engine] on the internet then up came Verdens Gang and Aftenposten….
M.O. You are a one person mission to take down Norway . Good luck to you.
F. Well, how am I going to do that? You know perfectly well that, er, you…you…
M.O. I know that.
F. You do everything. You people do anything to cover up and lie and cheat, you know.
M.O. Norwegians do that?
F. Huh?
M.O. Norwegians do that or…..
F. You do it, your press colleagues, the police. Torill Sorte. She never knew I was recording her telephone conversations. Every single one of them. And that's why she was caught out in court.
Morton Øverbye then asked for my mother's phone number and my doctor's phone number so as to try and verify my account, but I told him everything he needed was in the court documents.
F. Have you got access to the court records or not?
M.O. Er, it depends on how all the case are.
F. So why don't you ring up that arsehole of a judge, what's his name at the Court of Appeal? Er, Agnar Nilsen Jnr. You ring him up and say, Dear Mr Nilsen Jnr, is there a letter from my doctor and he'll say, “I'll go and have a look at the records”, or alternatively he will say, “I'm not allowed to show you anything.” You research from there.
M.O. And it would be O.K for you if we put those court documents online?
F. Of course it wouldn't ‘cos you're not allowed to. The court wouldn't allow you to do that. You can look at them but you're not allowed to do that [put them on the internet].
M.O. I don't ask the court's permission, I ask your permission.
F. No, no, no. No permission ‘cos, as I said, I don't trust you. You've just said again that my website's an obsession. It's not. It's just a record of what you've [the Norwegians] done. A record of what you've done.
M.O. To me it looks like an obsession.
F. To me your newspaper are obsessed as well. Because no one else would do that. You wouldn't have done anything if I wasn't Muslim, and half German. German mother.
M.O. Of course, if any person were sexually or in any other way were harassing a Norwegian woman for 23 years it would be a story….if it was a German, if it was a Frenchman, an Italian, a Swede, whoever.
F. There you go again – “23 years.” I haven't even gone to see the woman …since….1990 was the last time I met her O.K. And all this business about threatening to kill her neighbours. What bullshit!
M.O. Have I written that you have threatened to kill the neighbours?
F. Your colleagues in the press have. But what you've done at the end of it all is, in a way, so much worse 'cos you've had all the benefit of the information that's already there [on the website]. [He was reading the Aftenposten headlines back to me as we spoke]. Total bullshit. Have a good long read and look at those recorded conversations and we'll have another chat…
M.O. Next week.
F. Yeah, that's right
M.O. O.K…. Have a nice weekend.
F. Yes, cheers.
M.O. O.K, bye.
I rang Morton Øverbye back on the afternoon of the Sunday 20th May but he had not followed up anything due, he said, to his busy schedule so said I would call him again at the beginning of June.